Doctor Who - Capaldoc has landed!

[Vetinari]

ShortNCuddlyAm: Ooh might suggest that idea on the GalleyBase photoshop thread!

werepuppy: Hrmm I'm really not sure how I feel about the episode at the moment. Loved the 1st 40 minutes, and Capaldi (impossibly) upped his game - his performance is just improving every week! O.o And I liked the ambiguity of the monster/no monster question. But the last 5 minutes?? Really? Clara is again reiterated as the most important companion? Sigh.

[werepuppy]

Vetinari: I don't think she was reiterated as the most important companion. Her entire story arc is mostly about how she's impossible in terms of how the Doctor views her - he doesn't see himself as being worthy for his companions to save. That one of them, ANY of them, would chose to risk their life so greatly for him... it's an impossible thought to the Doctor. In this episode? It was pure and utter accident. Being too concerned for the Doctor lead her back in time to his most vulnerable point, where her instincts came out in full force. She's not the 'most important', what she is to the Doctor is a good friend. And this, to a man who genuinely forgets he has one of the biggest families in the universe, is something impossible.

... Or at least, that's how me and my 'taking-media-apart-critically' mind took it. (Never take media courses at uni, you end up looking at everything with critical eyes and breaking down into story and set and all the other components. Course, the bonus of it is, this usually means I can get some enjoyment out of a terrible movie if the set, lighting and costuming are good.)

That being said... I need to agree completely on the Capaldi front. He's just... Okay, I knew he was a good actor, but it's like now he's in his dream role, he's just throwing it all out there. I like that the episode set up all these questions, seemed to answer them, but didn't really. I liked the minimal of special effects that the episode used. I liked how incredibly mind-screwy it was. Man, I even liked the obviously emotionally manipulative speech of Clara's because it fitted. (Though I could also see Barbara making the same speech, and considering the parallels between Barbara and Clara - small though they may be - could be deliberate. Every other call back is deliberate so...)

Basically, probably going to be the best episode of this series. Robot of Sherwood still wins as the most fun so far though, but Listen is going to be the new Blink.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Vetinari: Ooh, if you do you'll have to post links to any pics anyone does.

So. Caught Listen on tonight's replay (yup, could've watched it a bit earlier on iPlayer, but 8pm was a good time). Mostly good. Minimal use of special effects really helped the mood. And then the end bit happened.

Now I get the logic behind why they arrived there - I think Werepuppy nailed it. But... half of me didn't like "Oh look - Clara at another possibly pivotal moment *yawn*". But... the more I think about that scene, the more it comes across as actually quite horrifying. So she re-iterated (and/or implanted...) the Dr's speech about fear being a super power. So she told him he'd go back to the barn one day but not because he was afraid. So she did a pretty good job of trying to undo the damage she'd done by grasping his ankle. But... she also told a scared child that fear would always be with him, and the only reason people were companions was because of fear? Edited to add: I know, direct quote from Unearthly Child, but different context entirely. (Need to re-read this on a different screen to see what else I thought I'd said and didn't! ) But despite that, it weakened what had come before.

I realised this evening that the jibes about Clara's looks remind me of Six and Peri to a degree. Clara is, at least, leagues better as a companion than Peri (a dead housefly would be a better companion than Peri, though). And in Listen there seemed to be more than a hint of Dirk Gently (book version, not TV version). Obviously in attitude, not appearance

[werepuppy]

Bank Heist episode tonight! If anything, the premise suggests that we should have a bit of fun - who's the writer on this ep, anyone know?

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

According to the Beeb, Steven Moffat and Steve Thompson.

(Mildly amusingly, we have a Steve Thompson in our department, and have been doing a lot of work with a consultant called Steven Moffit, who pronounces it as if the i was an a)

[DollyKim]

Finally saw Fires of Pompeii, 5 internets to anyone who redubs Tennant and Capaldi meeting with the Saturday Night Live sketch about All Things Scottish.

Welcome to All Things Scottish, if it's not Scottish it's crap!

[Vetinari]

Eek gods sorry not been on the BJD bit of the internet for a while...

werepuppy: ...Yea logically I get that Clara just happened to be the companion who was with him on that adventure, and it was a nice little touch to tie the whole thing emotionally to itself... But as a fan it's a bitter pill to swallow that such a large part of his personality may have been formed by a predestination paradox, though I suppose that's always the risk when doing stuff about his "mysterious past"



Hrmm quite enjoyed Time Heist - Capaldi, was as ever excellent - the look of utter devastation on his face when Saibra had to commit "suicide" and then him struggling to keep up the facade in front of the other two? Masterful! But as a friend of mine commented, it was very much a "**** happened" kind of episode, yea it all made a tenuous sense in Whoverse-logic but it didn't feel like a very coherent plot somehow. Psi and Saibra were both wonderful characters, for all that they were straight out of an 80s comic! I'd love it if they did feature in another episode at some point. I think Time Heist was a fun episode of Doctor Who but a fairly mediocre bit of TV if that makes any sense...

Ironically I enjoyed The Caretaker a lot lot more, despite the fact that the plot was really there to further the relationships rather than for the adventure this week so was pretty thin! Capaldi/Coleman were both wonderful - I'm really loving Clara's relationship with 12, she just feels quite a bit more fleshed out this year when compared to series 7b's "mystery woman" arc where she had to be rather 2D to maintain the mystery. Loved the little cameo from Chris Addison as the secretary to the afterlife! (though is it bad that I fully expect him to stab Capaldi/Tucker in the back even though I know he's a completely different character?)

The only part of the episode I didn't like was Clara/Danny. And not because it was "soap-like" as the usual crowd of "fanboys" are accusing... Hrmm I'm not sure what it is but Danny's character is really setting off alarm bells in my head, after his domineering behaviour on their first date I was leery; first date and he's already demanding complete transparency??? Ew. I'd not have given him a second date after that debacle to be honest, at every turn Clara apologised - but whenever Danny came out with something unpleasant and upset her she was "making a fuss" Ew.Ew.Ew.

But after today? Well if Clara was a friend of mine I'd be telling her to run for the hills. ...Except Clara probably thinks she has to stay with him because of Orson...

I can't quite tell if this "not quite right" vibe I'm getting is a deliberate bit of characterisation or not.

But frankly Danny's character really squicks me out, I mean I get that Clara was keeping one hell of a secret from him. So logcially he has every right to be a bit upset... But his reaction got me. He demanded to see what she behaves like when she "Elopes with the Doctor when I'm not looking" - so she goes out of her way to show him how she's "the same", with the invisible watch... Only after seeing the Doctor for a few minutes Danny starts making huge aspersions on his character, all designed to scare Clara away from one of her closest friends. I don't think Danny had interacted enough with The Doctor at that point to be able to safely say any of that, and again I get that it could be intended as him just responding to The Doctor's earlier idiocy tit for tat; but that scene really made me sit up in horror... He came across as really unnecessarily nasty to me/manipulative there.

Finally that last scene in the flat with the ultimatum, and how it was all for her own good doesn't she see? Gods that made me shudder, that's exactly how so many abusive spouses behave, even though the ultimatum wasn't actually that horrific - why did it need to be an ultimatum? And her face at the end... I really hope this stuff is purposeful and Orson ends up being a red herring... Otherwise, well you can probably tell that I'm going to be keeping an eye on Clara from now on for signs of an unhealthy relationship and believing that something's going on even if it does end up as "happily ever after"... Argharghargh

[werepuppy]

...You wrote out very wise things regarding the relationship with Danny (though it was nice to see an attempt at addressing the class issues in DW, even if it wasn't done very well.)

Mostly, though, for The Caretaker, I spent the episode going "so where's Ian and why isn't he yelling at the Doctor for causing problems to his school? ... Again."

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

So... Kill The Moon.

Starting at the end... found it amusing him telling Clara off for (mild) swearing.

And back to the beginning, with some very old-style Who sfx and old-style Who (and Trek ) acting ("right everyone, stagger around like there's been an explosion or major tremor")

Courtney is growing on me.

Clara is not. I can kind of understand why she was pissed off that the Dr sodded off and let the humans make the decision about earth. His attitude was rather patronising, to say the least. But there seemed to be a very strong subtext of Clara being unable to make important decisions by herself and needing someone else to do them for her. She was very much sitting back and hoping someone else would make them for her. "Don't ever tell me to take my training wheels off again!" indeed.

[werepuppy]

Mummy on the Orient Express was a decent enough episode. I kind of hate that they had to spell out something that's been obvious to the audience since really early on though - that even if it's a bad choice to make, there's still a choice the Doctor needs to make.

Really not liking Danny lately. He's seems a bit too passive-aggressive and demanding of Clara (who is being very flip-floppity this season) which are not good things to be seeing in a love interest character, particularly one we're meant to be sympathetic towards.

Courtney needs to show up some more. She's fun

And Capaldi is basically giving fantastic performances every week. He clearly enjoys his job.