What is with the whole "true" BJD war?

[MeltedCaramel]

In Regards To Den Of Angels....I think maybe I might have come off sounding rather nasty regarding them, or at least not nice? I don't have any firsthand experience with them and don't claim to know how they operate, I'm just going off of what seems to be....err, rather a lot of bad secondhand experience. Not so much that the members are the issue, more the problem being brought up in this thread where one thing is deemed "on topic" and another that looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, is suddenly not a duck. Am I making sense?

quidam, you said

While I don't poke around for other doll forums, I'm sure there are Barbie-only, babydoll-only, so-on-and-so-forth forums out there also. There's place for all types of doll forums, thankfully. It's great DS exists for it atmosphere, and openness to all types. And you know what, I do think it's good that there are type-specific forums.

<---Of course there are tons of niche boards out there for every sort of hobby you can imagine, but I guess what I've heard of DoA tends to be more of the...again, "elitist" attitude towards what they don't consider a "true" BJD. I like how Dollieh Sanctuary has everything in categories, but doesn't make one thing more important than another. It makes it feel all inclusive and welcoming. I was being warned off of DoA in particular by that well meaning seamstress about the "BJD" faux paus I was apparently making.

I think it comes down to "fashion dolls" really are a vehicle for the clothes. If you want a new outfit for your Barbie or MH, then you will have to buy a new doll. That is how they are marketed. They, of course, have store bought separate outfits, but they aren't the fancy ones. BJDs, on the other hand, come to you stark naked. You can dress them up fancy if you choose, or you can leave them in all of their naked glory. They really aren't marketed on fashion.

<----MH is a fashion doll if I've ever seen one!! They sell tons of extra outfits and clothes without the dolls themselves! I remember being a youngster and them selling special "outfit only" boxes for barbie, way back when. They even came in themes, etc, and they were done up very nicely.

Azone does "character" dolls a lot. They often do characters from anime series, that sort of thing. They also often tend to cross paths with Obitsu dolls! (For instance Azone used Obitsu's 23cm male body for Ciel Phantomhive).

TeaLove, I tend to agree with your definition of "fasion doll". Tonner, Momoko and the like. That's what comes to mind for me! :3

Geektopian thank you for an overall informative post.

While DoA has certainly generated a fair amount of drama over the years, in fairness, they've also been victims of their own success. Once a board or social network community emerges as the standard bearer for a hobby/subculture, it always attracts Drama Llamas who want to take control and assert their own agendas while doing none of the heavy lifting (or bill paying) to build or maintain the community. There have been some legitimate complaints of elitism but there's also been a lot of bitching that amounts to "they won't let me bend the rules to fit me".

<----I certainly understand this, and like I said, I haven't had direct dealings with them, but even their "invitation only" membership kind of...stings. I feel like you're being judged by proxy on whether or not you're a "true" lover of the hobby. And I'm not looking for someone to bend the rules to fit me, I'm just alarmed at how stringent people seem to be on the whole issue. I mean, why is my awesome Medicom doll collection any less "authentic" just because it's not made of resin? Truthfully I enjoy the wide range of characters available in the medium.

ShortNCuddlyAm <----Basically your entire post. Yep. I totally agree.

Dollykim You just have a healthy outlook period. But I'm just interested in the knowledge behind the psychology of this debate. And being in the "minority" sometimes feels like you're a bit of an outcast. Which, again, Dollieh Sanctuary comes to the rescue!

[MitisFeles]

I'm relatively new to the BJD and doll scene (I adopted my little Obitsus just three years ago) and I experienced a "bjd war" episode, but on a italian BJD forum. Italian internet BJD community seems to be very closed and "traditionalist" in a DoA sense: they are really nice people but they are really picky about what is a BJD and what's not, and they also seems to valuate very little all that isn't a BJD for their standard (they also think Obitsu are low quality and ABS a crappy material). I asked them for information about Obitsus and they just said that they aren't BJD and they only know you can order them from Junky Spot. They were very polite (as always) and now that I have two resin BJD I have returned to that forum, and signed to DoA because they are huge resources, but I can understand very well the confusion that a newbie can feel, I experienced it too...for me a BJD was and still is simply a customizable, well posing doll!
I never experienced wars on DoA because I always followed their rules and posted all the dolliehs here, on DS. I don't nearly understand why an ABS Hujoo, a resin pet doll or Impldoll Miguel cannot be on topic, but I accept their rules and post on other forums all that they don't accept. Anyway, I adopt doll because they make something happen in my heart, not because is accepted by a community.

ShortandcuddlyAm

Tangentially to the OP, it saddens me when I see posts on Tumblr and the like where people are nervous about getting an ABS Hujoo or a lower priced resin BJD as their first doll as they feel they'll be looked down on for not having a "proper" BJD.

That saddens me too... it saddens me that this exist! A friend of mine bought as first doll a resin Hujoo Jake because her friends tell that the abs one was inappropriate!!!

[Alopecia No Hime]

I actually got into a fight recently on DOA with someone (well not so much a fight more so a: "Stop bullying me!" sort of thing..) they wouldn't stop telling me how sorry they felt for me and that I shouldn't be in this hobby if I couldn't afford 500 dollars on a doll, going as far as to say: "Well by the time your so called cheap doll is complete it'll be more then 500 dollars for clothes, good eyes, a quality face up" even after saying 100 dollars was expensive for a doll in general but I STILL spent that much...This person kept mocking me and went as far as to say: "I'd say get a barbie but I guess with so many 'cheap' dolls out there it would be rude." Yes a bunch of people put her in her place and I got the "Do you judge cheap doll owners thread" locked on DOA...Yeah that was my handy work but several people PM'd me and congratulated me on putting her in her place.

I have no regrets but that was actually the first time I ever encountered a real jerk on DOA. Usually everyone's really polite even the mods but this time some jerk decided to pick on me for not buying a 500 dollar BJD after I said: "If I can ever afford it I'd get these two because they're my grails" and went on and on about how they remembered back in the day when 500 dollars was/is cheap and that I was so naive...Bleck...>>;; Course the DOA mods deleted any evidence of that 'flare up'...

[Iwa_Hoshi]

[b]
Azone does "character" dolls a lot. They often do characters from anime series, that sort of thing. They also often tend to cross paths with Obitsu dolls! (For instance Azone used Obitsu's 23cm male body for Ciel Phantomhive).

One thing to note about the lovely Azone dolls in order to avoid stepping on a landmine. The 1/3 girls Azone company and Anime/Media based girls have painted eyes and I believe rooted hair (at least the ones I met in IRL). So far i think Kannojo (After School Play. she's creepy adorable IRL) and one or two other girls actually have insert eyes and wigs since they use Obitsu head and body.



I have two resin bjds and a whole bunch of OT dolls but I only stick to one or two threads on DOA, other times I just lurk around and comment on pics of dolls I liked. Its just so big that the place kinda scares me even with a big tough Iplehouse to hide behind. And yet I'm comfortable enough to post pics for DeviantArt galleries.

If anything I expect my resin bjds to be able to keep up with the pace my Obi50 and 1/6 Vinyl-ABS crew had set. project wise.

[DollyKim]

To date myself when I was old enough for it to affect me there were girls who had Cabbage Patch kids and I didn't. They weren't the first or last group of peers to exclude me but it set me up on a lonely road. To this day I'm wary of clubs with strict rules etc and question if I really want to belong. All you need to join here is a doll or an interest in dolls. No one picks apart your brand choices or face up skills. I fall in love with dolls by the way they look.

Until I began to work I never had money in my life, and even then I had to break through a lot of poverty traps and attitudes that my family still lives in. I don't talk about how much my dolls cost because I never caught on to the more expensive something costs the better it must be, same thing with designer goods. I'm the other way too in avoiding things I see as too cheap. I'd rather pay up front for quality and know its going to last.

I'm the one who has to live with my dolls and I'm going to live with dolls I enjoy.

[Studio 126]

...
While I don't poke around for other doll forums, I'm sure there are Barbie-only,...

Even among Barbie-only groups, some stick closely to Mattel canon, while others disregard it...


"This is Delphina Harper & Jacqueline Burroughs. They just happen to LOOK like Barbara Roberts & Margaret Hadley..."

[embyquinn]

As to what is and what is not a "true" BJD, I defer to the forum owner's wise words in the Manifesto, as posted here: http://www.dolliehsanctuary.com/sanctuary/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38:

Thesis 1: If, in the construction of the body mechanism of a doll, some form of a "ball" is used to enable the motion/poseability of the "joint", said doll shall be recognized as "Ball Jointed" or BJD.

Thesis 2: Product used to manufacture the BJD, whether resin, plastic, vinyl, sculpy or hardened animal feces shall in no way alter the status of any doll as being a BJD should they qualify as such under Thesis 1.

All other arguments are invalid.

[zirconmermaid]

The first doll I thought of as an ABJD was my Obitsu, Zircon. I did run into a little flak originally, but I didn't let it phase me. I love my Azone, Obitsu, and other littles. That was 7 years ago, I haven't run into it much lately, in fact not for quite a few years. Technically, the first BJD I had was a baby doll, she was strung. I also have some antique hand carved wooden dolls, including an actual Victorian Penny Wooden. I think of a fashion doll as a doll that gets put in one outfit and then sat on a shelf or cabinet and never played with. Granted, some of my resin dolls are close to this, but they all do get out at least occasionally. And not all my Barbies are shelf dolls. One of my silkstones is almost as bad as the little Obitsu for wanting new outfits! I do enjoy DOA, because I can look up owner pictures of dolls that I might never have but like to see. They are a wonderful resource, and have done a lot for this hobby. I have to admit that that I get a perverse pleasure that although she is vinyl and not really within their definitions, except for being "grandfathered" in, I do post Hazel there occasionally. And she does get good responses, and requests for more pictures.

[MeltedCaramel]

Alopecia no Hime ....That just doesn't bode well for that user period. How rude. <_< Being not exactly "rolling in it" myself, I know exactly how it feels when you're finally able to buy something that you're happy with. It doesn't have to be someone else's idea of a grand item, it just has to make YOU feel happy, and the fact that someone bullied you over the price of your doll is just underhanded and frankly mean. We're all adults here, and the ones that aren't quite adults (don't want to leave anyone out! <3) conduct themselves so that age doesn't come into question.

Also, that's the feeling I get with DoA, like they're some massive PR machine that has to control EVERYTHING that is said, to the point where it sounds like some ridiculous rules get made under the guise of "keeping an on topic board".

Iwa_Hoshi, you mentioned

One thing to note about the lovely Azone dolls in order to avoid stepping on a landmine. The 1/3 girls Azone company and Anime/Media based girls have painted eyes and I believe rooted hair (at least the ones I met in IRL). So far i think Kannojo (After School Play. she's creepy adorable IRL) and one or two other girls actually have insert eyes and wigs since they use Obitsu head and body.

<----I'm not sure what landmine I'd be stepping on? I know some of them have insert eyes and some of them are painted (Ciel's head got up close and personal with some tweezers to de-root him last night). And I adore Kannojo. I don't even watch the show but that doll is just...gorgeous!

DollyKim I know how you feel. Honestly Dollieh Sanctuary was a gift forum deposited in my hot little hands. I had no idea that there were people like all of you, discussing dolls without the rigid prejudice of labeling. To me the only thing good about a label is if it's informative and helps you find things. Anything beyond that just starts to muddle and confuse me.

Also, I'm the kind of person who thinks the $650 I paid for my Roy Mustang Medicom (he was MIB, I had to!) doll is pretty much the top end that I'd ever pay for a doll, so see where I was wary when people throw out numbers like "Oh it's $2,000 for that naked resin body"? ...Wait! I have nothing against the people that have the extra cash and that's what they want, but I enjoy here where no one seems to have any negative opinions or superiourity complexes. And besides, I got to order from SetsunaKou! I had no idea customizers like her and her sister even existed! And I'm slowly working on my own customs, found a seamstress who does amazing Obitsu fashions and she's become a friend so she's a little more likely to indulge my anime whims. ^_~ (When Alois is done you'll all see her costume work on display when I post pics!)

Studio 126 ...Okay, I have to ask, what's Mattel's "canon" on Barbie's break-up with Ken? XDD Was it all just a "bad dream" or are they calling it a midlife crisis? XD

embyquinn XD, Greyhaunt's wisdom is infinite, though I don't want anyone taking up the mantle of that hardened animal feces challenge. You know someone, somewhere would do it.

[Iwa_Hoshi]

Iwa_Hoshi, you mentioned

One thing to note about the lovely Azone dolls in order to avoid stepping on a landmine. The 1/3 girls Azone company and Anime/Media based girls have painted eyes and I believe rooted hair (at least the ones I met in IRL). So far i think Kannojo (After School Play. she's creepy adorable IRL) and one or two other girls actually have insert eyes and wigs since they use Obitsu head and body.

<----I'm not sure what landmine I'd be stepping on? I know some of them have insert eyes and some of them are painted (Ciel's head got up close and personal with some tweezers to de-root him last night). And I adore Kannojo. I don't even watch the show but that doll is just...gorgeous!

.

Probably the one about painted eyes and insert eyes or rooted hair or wearing wigs. If that would qualify for them to join the insert eye bunch. After all the Obitsus are grandfathered in and blanket terms like dollfies and bjds tend to get use.

I'm tempted to pass a cloth wig cap to one of my friends and see if his Lilia can wear it and then wear wigs