Lammily- the "average" doll

[Trethowan]

So what is "average" for the girl in America today? What does a marketing company think it is? When does Harrison Bergeron call and want it's plot back?

Who's to tell us what's girly and what isn't? The most recent decent role model I've seen for girls has been Emma the girl yellow Wiggle.

Something something why buy Bratz for your little girls and complain about them being over sexualized? Take responsibility for what comes in to your home. An "average" doll for me would have jeans, an endless supply of t-shirts, and a cluttered arts and craft table. She doesn't wear make-up, doesn't shop for designer label stuff, and can never find a truly comfortable pair of shoes.

THIS! I do agree quite strongly.

[Gift_in_Edge]

I can't find it but I watched a great news video about parents being upset about a fussy eater baby doll. The reporter said that if your child is not eating just because their doll isn't, that's something more going now.

Teach me what to do. Don't take away my options.

[TsukiNoKemuri]

I'm a little late to the game here... I saw Lammily mentioned in this Kansas City Star commentary and wondered if the DS community knew about it and what they would have to say. A quick search showed that, yep, it's known and being talked about.

I'm not sure I have anything new to offer on the commentary side of things, but I did just want to say that, as a collector and amateur modder, I'd be interested in a doll of this nature, just to have another body type to work with. From what I've read, it's articulated (looks like visible joints at wrist and ankle, covered joints at elbow and knee), which is a plus. That said, I'm not sure whether I like her facial appearance -- and, no, not because of lack of makeup or less tapering of the jaw, but because her expression seems so flat and emotionless. Also, gosh, I just realized almost every doll I own has bangs, or at least something hiding her forehead a bit.

So I'd consider buying a couple of these if they were sold at a local store (or a familiar online retailer) for a reasonable price (I'd be a little hesitant at paying the $25 price shown on the crowdfunding site), and would almost certainly end up modding them.

[Tealove]

I think it's a neat idea for parents to buy. I'm not sure what it offers for kids compared to all the accessories and clothes that Barbie and Monster High can give them. I only played Barbie as a kid because that's what my sister wanted to do. Otherwise, I thought she was kind of boring.


This article is kind of weird though:

http://www.elle.com/news/culture/lammily-real-barbie-nickolay-lamm

It’s sort of surprising that you're a male and you're making this product. You don't have daughters, either. What's the genesis?

I was reading something on the Internet, and I remember a commenter that kind of read my mind. I think it was on Huff Post. On some story, he posted a comment that said something like 'To the male, to me, Barbie…she kind of looks alien-like.' And that's what sparked it. I agree. If Barbie were a real woman, she'd be intimidating and cold, and what I like about real women is that they're warm and friendly. I just wanted to create an image that would reflect that.

I guess for a guy wanting to ask barbie out, she might seem a little hard to approach. But I don't think being more approachable to men because she's average is really the "end goal" parents want for their daughter.

I suppose that's kind of harsh. He has said a lot of other great things about self-esteem issues and so on. But I think his inspiration is a little bit unfortunate. It shouldn't be about what guys want in a girl. My niece loves monster high and ever after high because the storyline and "message" is about being who you want to be, choosing your own destiny, embracing differences and so on. Barbie kind of does the same with her different careers, owning pink, making it a power color and so on. Maybe Mattel doesn't make the most PC of body shapes, but their marketing machine hits the right notes with kids.

I do love the idea of multiple shapes in dolls and there is no reason why this girl can't join barbie. But as others have said, she needs a hook. You can buy toys for a child, but you can not make them play. And I know if you bought this doll for a child that really wanted a barbie, that kid will be disappointed. You have to make the kid want the doll for it to be worth the money.

[DollyKim]

Be who you want to be, as long as it fits in to the show's and society's parameters. I like the depth the give to Monster High but they they still seem overly concerned about how they look. There is more than one girl and they talk about more than boys. I remember watching the Halloween special and wondering where in the world were either of Jackson/Hyde's parents and why weren't they doing something about his being in a life or death situation?

I'd like to see a chubby doll. I wish the Turnblatts from Hairspray had more joints. Why do people say they want realistic dolls but throw a fit over a pregnant one? And if a guy is saying Barbie would be a freaky real woman who said she was meant to be realistic in the first place? Barbie took off because most dolls at the time were babies and Ruth Handler's niece or someone liked playing with teenage paper dolls because they weren't.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

As random words and phrases can trigger major ear worms for me, I'd like to thank Quidam for getting Rockwell's "Somebody's Watching Me" stuck in my head for the last couple of days... hrm... could I filk that? (link for those too young to know it it )

I'm just an average doll, with an average shape
I live with Monster Highs, had all that I can take
All I want is to be left alone
In an average home
But why do I always feel
Like I'm in the Twilight Zone?

(I have nothing against Monster High dolls, btw)

On topic ish

As a doll, I think Lammily looks fine - although she seems to be a homogenised average. Most "average" people I know have some characteristic that makes them not so... bland looking.

Sadly I don't think a more average sized doll will do a damn thing to prevent children developing any kind of body dysmorphia, eating disorder or any other related problem. Not when adults are continually talking about how important being thin and dieting are both in front of and directly to children who are, in my very unqualified opinion, far too young (pre-teen, prepubescent, etc) to be needing to think about that sort of thing; and the various forms of media are explicitly or implicitly promoting the thin ideal.

Like Trethowan, I never had any body image issues, or even awareness, as a child. My dolls were my avatars (mostly Pippas, some Sindys and one Babrie who ended up as a mermaid after an accident) who went on adventures that I - as a child - couldn't. If there was any aspect of them that I wanted to be, it was the qualities (mostly of creativeness, independence and adventurousness) that I had already bestowed them with. Maybe growing up in the 70s and early 80s was different - there was certainly less constant bombardment with adverts. But when I hit my teens, I also got a kidney problem that caused me to swell up like the Michelin Man, and until it was diagnosed I had world+dog telling me to diet and stop eating so much. And of course no-one believed me when I said I wasn't (and this is the main root cause of the eating disorders that have plagued since about a year or after that (and that I'm finally trying to kill)). When I got diagnosed, I was treated with steroids, with the accompanying moon face and increased appetite. Which made me look fatter, which just increased the whole "you must conform to the thin ideal or die(t) trying" routine.

I'm not saying dolls might not contribute to the problem, and I'd certainly like to see more diversity in dolls aimed at children (body shape, skin colour and facial features, etc) but I wonder how much of it is because adults use them (wittingly or unwittingly) to push their own (and society's) obsession with the thin ideal? And as I'm now repeating myself, I'll stop this post.

Tl;dr: the idea of homogenised humans is making my skin creep and my own problems stemmed form humans, not dolls

[Gift_in_Edge]

Back in the day being fat meant you were rich, you had the money to pay lots of food. Now it seems it's the other way around, being thin could be seen as a rich status. You have the money for healthy food and gyms/workouts or (shiver) liposuction.

[DollyKim]

Bland would definitely be a turn off. Anyone looking to make a fashion doll that will make a dent needs to consider- joints, a variation of skin tones, a variation of face molds, being able to share clothes and stuff with Barbie or another established brand, a hook.

All of us who bought Liv will attest that you don't even need to meet all of those. I think it was the big heads that doomed them, had they been a bit more proportional they might have stood a chance, the wig idea is great and the smaller headed CAM Monsters use it. I have four little 22cm Juku Couture girls with great joints that I wish were taller. A lot of my guys from different makers have the same clothing "size" because they know people are going to customize.

[Trethowan]

A funny thing (in my demented mind) would be to take the doll an mod it out like a Barbie. Give her a fancy face-up, clothes, and pad the bra.

[maywong]

Didn't Mattel make a body like this ? It was the grandmother doll from the Happy Family.