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The "Nazi" issue

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The "Nazi" issue

Postby Greyhaunt » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:31 am

Honestly, when I shot off my comment about the nazi uniform thing I little expected to have such massive repercussions. First of all, let me present you with my exact words, quoted from my post:

"There will be no discussion about the Japanese manga/doll cultural fascination with Nazi uniforms - while I run this forum with a light hand I have topics that I do not care to have discussed - that will be one of them. If you don't like it - feel free to take it up with me in a PM - you won't win."

Please note that I'm pretty specific there - I do not say that there can be no discussions of anything WWII era etc... I said the Japanese manga/doll cultural fascination. Why did I say this? Because by this point in time it was already quite obvious that Roxy likes a good argument (or even a bad one). The entire issue of Nazis is a hell of a sensitive one - some people don't really have much of a reaction to it because it never touched their families in any way, other people have a much more direct connection to the era, to the war and to one or the other sides of the fighting. For them anything that looks or sounds nazish is offensive and will cause harsh emotions. In other words, it is a controversial topic and pretty much guaranteed to bring out strong emotions eventually. Even though at the time I didn't know it was a fixation of hers, I was concerned that she would run with it for arguement's sake so I hoped to stop it there. Please note, I invited anyone who wished to contact me privately to discuss the matter - only Roxy did.

My family comes from Germany - my parent's emigrated here making me first generation American. Both sides of my family were extremely affected by WWII. For me it can become an emotional issue and I flat out told Roxy more than once, that a large part of why i didn't want the topic becoming an open discussion is that I felt it would get out of hand and that I, myself, was likely to go off on it. I don't think that I was being unreasonable, and I still feel that way.

So what is the policy on the topic of Nazis? As I said in my original post, let's not start a discussion on the Japanese manga/doll/cultural fascination with nazi uniforms. If they need to come up for some reason in a discussion then just be mature about it, ok? Exercise tact and realize that it is a sensative subject. And above all remember - this is a forum for dolls, not a place to push personal ideologies or get into heavy philosophical debates about political/historical/religious issues.

Please feel free to PM me if you want to personally discuss anything I have said. I promise that I won't swear at you :lol:
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby x0xPeachyx0x » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:21 pm

I don't really understand this whole ordeal, it seems quite over played in all honesty. I belive some people just like drama llama it up? its always my assumption. Much like when post secrets put up a secret featuring the all mightly 'mormon underpants' There was huuuge controversy over it, though no one but the mormons could see why. (The picture, Im sure was taken from the first page of google, and they are by no means a secret...0.o)

But Sure! the nazis where a big deal back in the day, but we see them in cartoons now and then as the butt end of some pretty good jokes that I know I, even as a girl whos grandparents fought in that war, get a kick out of! (Banned bugs bunny cartoon anyone? X-men? Family guy!?)
I just don't think that there should be that much public controversy anymore over something that they throw in childrens cartoons. No, Family guy is NOT a kids show, but they watch it, make no mistake about that.

A Doll in a Nazi uniform is rather..well, I concider it much the same as a doll giving the middle finger. its offensive to some, yes, but that is how the internet works, right? That and ive only ever seen an actual swastica on a doll like..once..ever. General military uniforms should not be throw in with this lot, just for having an arm band or whatever =S its silly.
I loove uniforms. =(

People take things too seriously. Stop taking your Religion so seriously, stop taking things that happened well in the past so seriously, and stop taking yourselves so seriously, And Especially stop taking Doll fashions So seriously lol! When she sent me that PM, and I saw her stupid signature anti-nazi thing( before reading it) I thought she was gonna cuss me out for my recent photoshoot with my dollheart vambane outfits. LOL
Like, I don't like boy dolls in Fers, but do i make a stupid little stamp for it? no, I do not..its petty and immature 0-o

Am I missing the whole point here? Wtf is with that chick? baffles my brain so early in the mornin.
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby Dark Angel » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:32 pm

I'm just sorry this got so out of hand. And she might have thought that sending EVERYONE a PM was being "polite" or "considerate" so that we may leave the forum too. (I think it was just a way of seeing if anyone else will join her) But really? I'm sure anyone that frequents the board saw the discussion.

I don't know. I left a forum before because of some issues with the "mods" (I guess you could call them that) but I didn't send it to everyone and their brother.

As for the Nazi topic, I think it's very taboo. If you want your doll to be affiliated with the Nazi's, good for you. But know that not everyone will agree with your decision. And it's one of those things that you want to keep private... like "adult dolls" Lol.

But I'm confused. Was she promoting Nazi dolls???
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby arrowchild » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:39 pm

hugs greyhaunt*
because after all that ridculous drama, I feel like you really need one!!!!!
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby x0xPeachyx0x » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:56 pm

Dark Angel wrote:I'm just sorry this got so out of hand. And she might have thought that sending EVERYONE a PM was being "polite" or "considerate" so that we may leave the forum too. (I think it was just a way of seeing if anyone else will join her) But really? I'm sure anyone that frequents the board saw the discussion.

I don't know. I left a forum before because of some issues with the "mods" (I guess you could call them that) but I didn't send it to everyone and their brother.

As for the Nazi topic, I think it's very taboo. If you want your doll to be affiliated with the Nazi's, good for you. But know that not everyone will agree with your decision. And it's one of those things that you want to keep private... like "adult dolls" Lol.

But I'm confused. Was she promoting Nazi dolls???


Earlier this morning, when i checked her message she had this stupid little signature pic at the bottom, all Anti-nazi dolls or something...I think she just generally didn't like that Greyhaunt didn't banhammer nazi-esque looking uniforms? err...I could be wrong 0_0
She just couldn't agree that Nazi dolls are offensive, she had to go over the top and find something to argue about metinks =B
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby Greyhaunt » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:13 pm

Roxy felt that dolls wearing nazi uniforms meant that the owners supported and were promoting the racist beliefs of the nazi movement (and by that I presume the current neo-nazi and skinhead groups). She wanted to be able to have an open discussion about the whole nazi uniforms on dolls things - which isn't exactly what I banned if you refer to what I wrote, but I have to confess, by the time we got that far in our PMs she had gone far off that tangent and beyond what was appropriate in a doll forum. Ironically we are now having a discussion about that very thing, but without the drama I believe she would have brought to it.

My personal belief, for what it is worth, and it may be insulting to some, is that most of the people who dress their dolls in nazi style uniforms do it because they like uniforms or have a uniform fetish and it has nothing to do with nazis at all. On the rare occassion when someone does go so far as to actually put a swastika on their doll....come on, we are talking doll geeks here - I'm betting it's some sort of fantasy/pseudo fetish thing and the odds of that person having actually researched the nazi movement is slim to nil.

Sure, there are people who like to create historically accurate dolls as well. As I've noted elsewhere I honor and respect that because making historical costumes is not easy. I still don't think that makes someone a nazi supporter and would not ban the doll or the uniform just for that reason.

However, if someone started to use their dolls to promote racism, bigotry or hatred against other people because of race, sexual orientation or any other reason they would be dealt with swiftly. Not just because it offends me personally but because this is a forum about dolls in all their diversity - and thus as an extension about their people too.
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby Llwynog » Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:49 pm

Dark Angel wrote:And she might have thought that sending EVERYONE a PM was being "polite" or "considerate" so that we may leave the forum too. (I think it was just a way of seeing if anyone else will join her) But really?


She wanted to have a tantrum that everyone would see and couldn't be deleted by a mod. :roll:
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby KitKat » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:24 pm

Huh...What?? Man....When I saw that message I had to read it twice. Not only did I have NO idea what she was talking about, but I was just happy to be in on the drama this time. I always miss the drama. Darn this busy life!!

Anyway....I've been in this hobby for several years now and we have had our share of crazies, drama queens, and just plain strange....and that's our admins :lol: ......but on a serious note. We know how to handle these things and we are all here on this forum to support Greyhaunt and the people that we love in this hobby. This has always been a family to me...even if I don't talk alot. We are protective of our forums and the people in them. It comes down to this....DON'T MESS WITH OUR FAMILIES HARMONY!! We like a free flowing environment where we can talk about dollies, and some other stuff.

I wanted to thank Greyhaunt and everyone on here that makes this forum great. Even though I don't comment alot, I read the forum everyday and I really admire everyone on here. Thank you.
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby Geektopian » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:28 pm

Llwynog wrote:
Dark Angel wrote:And she might have thought that sending EVERYONE a PM was being "polite" or "considerate" so that we may leave the forum too. (I think it was just a way of seeing if anyone else will join her) But really?


She wanted to have a tantrum that everyone would see and couldn't be deleted by a mod. :roll:

BINGO! And it worked pretty well too! She gets more attention than she's likely ever gotten on a board AND she gets to feel properly "oppressed" and "victimized", all while throwing a huge public tantrum.
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Re: The "Nazi" issue

Postby AlmySidaKay » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:38 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0

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