do you really want to buy anything from China ?

[AlmySidaKay]

Honestly I could die just as easily from walking out to get the mail and being hit by lightning or struck by a car. I wouldn't put a bunch of toys from anywhere in my mouth, honestly. So, why are we making a big stink about it?

[OkamiKodomo]

I kind of agree with Almy on this... Most people involved in the BJD hobby are adults, or teens; well past the age of chewing on toys. The dolls themselves are made from a material that's toxic on its own, or folks wouldn't scramble to use respirators when sanding resin. Those of us that do custom work use hazardous chemicals in the form of sealants and stain/face-up removers. To worry about trace contamination on the dolls is giving oneself unnecessary stress when most of us have bigger things to be concerned with. Look both ways when crossing the street, and make sure your children aren't putting things in their mouths that aren't edible. If a kid isn't old enough to know not to eat his/her toys, then they shouldn't have them, regardless of what they're made of, or where they come from. That's how my parents handled it when I was growing up. Toy goes in the mouth? Toy gets taken away.

In a lot of cases, it's also new chemicals that are being pushed into use without sufficient lab testing. It sucks for the people being guinea pigs, but there's not much to be done to prevent it, except extensive lab testing, which isn't always practical, and is a case of buyer beware. Don't trust the product? Don't use it. Asbestos were in use for yeeeeeears before anyone got wise to the health problems they cause. Same goes for lead in paint. And why were children eating paint chips in the first place? In other cases, such as the make-up and the Bratz recall that were linked, it doesn't even say where the products were contaminated and even so much as mentions that contamination is possible after opening the product. Accidents happen, and sadly, they can effect hundreds of people, but it isn't always a case of quality control, and it also isn't a case of negligence on the part of inspections agencies. Fact: Germs are all around us. Going through life worrying about them doesn't change anything, it just gives us headaches. How's the speech go? "Don’t worry about the future; or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubblegum."

Just adding my two cents. ^_^;

[theodoric]

Honestly I could die just as easily from walking out to get the mail and being hit by lightning or struck by a car. I wouldn't put a bunch of toys from anywhere in my mouth, honestly. So, why are we making a big stink about it?

if that is all that was involved ... kids putting things in their mouths ... I would agree with you

how about the stuff your home you live in is made of ... or what is in the makeup you put on your face ... or the furniture you are sitting on

The dolls themselves are made from a material that's toxic on its own, or folks wouldn't scramble to use respirators when sanding resin. Those of us that do custom work use hazardous chemicals in the form of sealants and stain/face-up removers.

I understand what you are saying about the various solvents and such when doing custom work ... I used to do model rocketry and model building as a kid ....... that's why they stopped making things like the old modelling glue and made the butrate dope model paint harder to get ... you could get high off of them ... and then they discovered that kids were getting brain damage from huffing modelling glue and some of the modelling paints

I'm curious ... I keep seeing the term "resin" getting tossed around in reference to dolls, especially bjd's

I know of dolls and bjd's being made from wood, porcelain, different types of clay's, different types of silicone, and various plastics like urethane

what exactly are you referring to when you use the term "resin" ?

... To worry about trace contamination on the dolls ...

well ... in some cases "trace" amounts are all it takes to cause problems ......... what do you think is one of the biggest things us vet's who have been in warzones getting exposed to all sorts of stuff fight with the Veteran's Administration constantly about ... because the govt does it's best to deny everything

In a lot of cases, it's also new chemicals that are being pushed into use without sufficient lab testing. ...

I agree with you about that ... and it does suck for the human guinea pigs

I think what has always bothered me the most ... is that for the sake of putting out a less expensive product so people will buy it ... some countries ignore even the hazards of known contaminants

Just adding my two cents. ^_^;

thank you for doing so ... your "two cents" are worth just as much as anyone else's

this has been an interesting thread so far ... because no one is making personal attacks ... we are just talking about a topic

[AlmySidaKay]

Resin, is what your doll Mio, is made of. As are all ABJD's (at least according to Den of Angels).

[Sorean]

I'm curious ... I keep seeing the term "resin" getting tossed around in reference to dolls, especially bjd's
...
what exactly are you referring to when you use the term "resin" ?

Oooh yay. Assuming this isn't rhetorical, this is my favorite thing to geek out on! The resin used in most resin ABJD is a polyurethane. Here's an extremely basic page about polyurethane resin. French resin and environmental resin are different forms, I don't work with them so I don't know that much.

Personally, no, I don't worry about lead, bacteria, or other contaminants in my Chinese dolls anymore than my Korean or Japanese dolls. Which is to say, very little.

[OkamiKodomo]

Haha perfect link, Sorean. That's awesome.

That's exactly the stuff, Theodoric. It's hazardous to breath in the dust; carcinogenic, I believe. It's also poisonous to ingest, and that's why most ABJDs are marketed as collectors items for adults, rather than toys for children. Generally (and I use this term very loosely), the dolls you're going to find are going to be made from resin, and there are those elitists that think a doll isn't a "asian ball joint doll" if it isn't made from resin. From my understanding, that's the attitude on Den of Angels, and mainly why I myself prefer this place. XD

I don't think it's an issue of buying things from China, really, because it happens all over the world. China just happens to be a glaringly large example of the things that can go wrong... and even that, I want to say is a case of too many variables. With one of (if not the) largest population densities in the world, it's becoming increasingly hard for governments to police the masses.

[theodoric]

Resin, is what your doll Mio, is made of. As are all ABJD's (at least according to Den of Angels).

I'm curious ... I keep seeing the term "resin" getting tossed around in reference to dolls, especially bjd's
...
what exactly are you referring to when you use the term "resin" ?

Oooh yay. Assuming this isn't rhetorical, this is my favorite thing to geek out on! ...

it was not a rhetorical question ... I was both serious and sincere when I asked ... and thank you both for your answers

... That's exactly the stuff, Theodoric. It's hazardous to breath in the dust; carcinogenic, I believe. It's also poisonous to ingest, and that's why most ABJDs are marketed as collectors items for adults, rather than toys for children.

I understand ... though it leaves me a bit puzzled because I seem to remember polyurethane being used for making childrens dolls (and other toys) at least as far back as the 70's and maybe back into the 60's

I wonder when it was determined to be hazardous ?

Generally (and I use this term very loosely), the dolls you're going to find are going to be made from resin, and there are those elitists that think a doll isn't a "asian ball joint doll" if it isn't made from resin. From my understanding, that's the attitude on Den of Angels, and mainly why I myself prefer this place. XD

LOL ... it sounds like Den of Angels needs to get over itself

possibly there arent any ABJD's being made with anything other than resin any more ... but for many years many bjd's were made with bisque heads and composite material bodies (bisque bodies were too fragile and heavy)

Bisque-head German doll with glass eyes and ball-jointed composition body, c.1920


and I have found references that dolls similar to this were being made as far back as the late 1800's

I don't think it's an issue of buying things from China, really, because it happens all over the world. China just happens to be a glaringly large example of the things that can go wrong ...

yeah ... China IS the worst for it

though from the reports I keep seeing ... it isnt the "masses" that are the problem ... it is greedy business management out to make a buck from big buyers like Wal-Mart ... the mentality of "anything is acceptable as long as they buy OUR product because we can make it cheaper than anyone else"

and I would think that a government would be able to control big business in a country ....... but then I look at America ... and realize who buys and sells politicians just like any other commodity

[kurosu.chan]

Lead in toys...yeah.
I'm not worried about anyone on this forum being poisioned by their dolls, I think we're all mature enough to know how to treat them... as long as you use common sense when handling any object, it shouldn't hurt you. I don't really even see how lead in a BJD could get into your body (at least, not in quantities large enough to really hurt you), especially with all those layeres of paint-protecting sealant.
I would, however, worry about pets. You can take a toy from a child, but if it's a dog or a cat that likes to chew on something, and you take it away, they'll find a way to get it back (Especially cats. I'm soo glad my cat leaves Mihika alone!...except to sleep on her bed...). Overall, though, I think statistically there are more dangerous aspects of toys to worry about. Like small, choking-hazard parts, or sharp edges and motors...but we don't have as much to worry about as we could.

[theodoric]

..... I would, however, worry about pets. You can take a toy from a child, but if it's a dog or a cat that likes to chew on something, and you take it away, they'll find a way to get it back (Especially cats. I'm soo glad my cat leaves Mihika alone!...except to sleep on her bed...) ...

that is one thing I am very glad I dont have as a concern ... for health reasons I dont have a pet

if I did ... I dont think I could own a doll of any sort ... dogs especially, LOVE to chew things to pieces ... and I would hate to have the emotional turmoil of a beloved pet having chewed to pieces a beloved doll

[OkamiKodomo]

My dogs are (for the most part) well behaved. When my first doll arrived home, I "introduced" her to them. Had each come over and sniff. My shiba inu just snorted and walked away like the geriatric fart that he is, so I don't worry about him. But the pit bull went to lick, and she got a flick to the edge of her ear and a firm "No." and that was the end of that. Next time she came near the doll, she sniffed and immediately turned away, wagging her tail. She's such a good girl. (PS: Pit bull haters have no idea what loving dogs they really are -rants privately in her head about breed-specific legislation-)

-ahem- back on topic....

Actually, Theodoric, one of the topics you linked to had some follow-up links... the biggest source of lead poisoning is really from mom-and-pop run factories producing batteries on a small scale. Supposedly the Chinese gov't is going to be cutting the number of these family-owned factories that are allowed in any one area. Go figure, right?