Please, hobby, stop this "racial aesthetic" nonsense.

[Greyhaunt]

LOL- yea, we are pretty inclusive here. Mind you I don't think the classic american made collectable child/baby dolls are really a good fit here or those porcelain victorian type ones, but I wouldn't tell someone NO YOU CAN'T POST THAT HERE if they did I'm just not certain how much discussion they'd end up getting. I mean, my Mom has a collection of 18" Gotz dolls, but I ain't gonna be posting them here any time soon.

and then there are those creepy reborn dolls.....

[GooglyDooglyV.2]

I'm all for excluding reborn dolls! They look so...wrinkly!!!!

[kittyasauras]

I don't like reborn dolls either.. they look like dead babies to me. 8(

[SuniMoon]

The whole thing drives me crazy, cause what I see the most of is hate for chinese dolls.
Cause they're less expensive? ... It seems like there are a lot of doll owners who only care about how many dolls they hoard and how much money they spend... And they don't even bond with their dolls, they don't do a lot of work to make them they're own, they just turn around and sell them another doll they MUST HAVE comes along.

For them Chinese dolls are the worst, Korean are better, but a Japanese BJD's are perfect in every way...
It's really obnoxious... But not surprising. Certain anime fans are the same way, to them Japan is the most amazing place in the world, we should bow before their glory, and they can do no wrong with anything. xD
And since anime and BJD owners go hand in hand most of the time... It's kind of a given.

But I look back on all my fav BJDs, before I even goooot my first doll.... I look back at all my favorite dolls back then, and realize NOW that all the ones I loved were by chinese and korean companies.

And I realized I don't even KNOW of any japanese BJD's, apart from dollfies... So I googled.
And I searched and searched through japanese companies, and I don't like any of them. D:

When I think of gorgeous BJDs, and double check where the companies are, they're always korean and chinese...
I just, personally, don't like any japanese dolls that I have seen... They're not BAD, they just don't scream "take me hooome. ;--;"

The only exception to this rule are obitsus, but that's not so much the actual sculpts, but how fun the little 1/6 ones are to mod and play with. And I'm sure the big ones are just as fantastic, even though theres probably only one head for those ones that I really like.

So yeah... the aesthetic thing is a bunch of weird, crazy, elitist doll collectors... It's sad... ):

[GooglyDooglyV.2]

Sigh.

There is no "hate" for Chinese dolls. The only reason there are seemingly more Chinese BJDs that were deemed OT is because there are more Chinese manufacturers and Chinese sculpts out there.

Look at how *many* Chinese dolls and Chinese manufacturers that is allowed in DoA. Do you guys even think about that? Or do you simply feel outrage when a few sculpts were OT'ed, disregarding the dozens, if not HUNDREDS of other Chinese doll sculpts that is wholly accepted in DoA?

Unfair much?

I always wondered why is it "elitist" or "weird" or "crazy" for having personal taste? Why is it crazy, weird, elitist and according to one poster here, "racist" to dislike certain sculpts?

I was gonna let this thread go, but the "racist" comments made my eyes bleed a little. Using such strong words as racism in regards to doll choice is not only egregiously irresponsible, but dare I say, extremely RACIST as well.

Why does being "American" or "European" should disqualify someone from making a PERSONAL judgement over what "looks" Asian? Don't they have eyes? Do American women have a disability preventing them from being able to tel what asians look like?

So with that regard, does that mean that I, as an Asian person, cannot tell the aesthetics of Europeans/Caucasians? Sorry but no.

tl/dr; Seriously, calling people racist just because they don't like a doll of your choice is just....ugh. Yes, better call the Southern Poverty Law Center, since I haven't seen such evil form of racism since...ever.

[OkamiKodomo]

lol Googly, I think you missed the point of this thread. It's not about the hate directed at certain locations, it's about a small, select group of American (predominately Caucasian) individuals that have begun, and perpetuated, a stereotype for doll hobbyists as elitists, who think they have a right to define (as opposed to identify) an ambiguous term regarding what should be Asian, and applied it to a hobby that encompasses people of all nations and ethnicity. Yes, you could certainly identify the general appearance of a Caucasian person, but that doesn't give you the right to tell someone who is Caucasian, that they're not, simply because they don't fit into your personal definition of Caucasian, and it has nothing to do with whether or not you're white, black, yellow, red, green or purple. Stereotypically, Caucasian people have fair skin and eyes, with blond to medium-brown hair. I'm Caucasian, with a predominance of Irish and Dutch heritage, and I have moderately dark skin from living in a tropical climate, dark eyes and dark hair. I look far more Latina than Caucasian, and I'm often mistaken as such. If you were to tell me that I'm not Caucasian because I look Hispanic, I'd tell you that you were crazy, and go on my way, regardless of what ethnicity you were.

The point of this thread is to discuss the seemingly haphazard way that the term "Asian Aesthetic" is applied to various dolls in the hobby. The issue is NOT that it's applied more to Chinese and Korean doll companies; that's a separate issue that ties into this one, but is not the issue itself. It's not that the people responsible for the term don't like the dolls we like, it's that it's such a vague criteria, that doesn't follow it's own precedents.

It's 'crazy, weird and elitist' because not everyone shares a small group's tastes, and the terms have been forced on a vast majority of members, under, as you said, a "bullfeathers" (love that term by the way lol) excuse for disallowing dolls that don't match that small group's likes. There's nothing wrong with having your personal preferences, and yes, if people don't like it, they're free to go to other places to share their treasured dolls. I think that's what angers and frustrates people; that some bogus term is used to excuse why certain dolls are off-topic in certain forums, rather than just coming out and saying "It's our forum, don't like it, tough cookies, go somewhere else." What gives a small group the right to decide what qualifies as a BJD, is the big question here.

[GooglyDooglyV.2]

lol Googly, I think you missed the point of this thread. It's not about the hate directed at certain locations, it's about a small, select group of American (predominately Caucasian) individuals that have begun, and perpetuated, a stereotype for doll hobbyists as elitists, who think they have a right to define (as opposed to identify) an ambiguous term regarding what should be Asian, and applied it to a hobby that encompasses people of all nations and ethnicity.

What I think you missed is the fact that DoA did NOT define what "asian" aesthetics should be, for the WHOLE BJD Hobby. This only applies to DoA and DoA only.

What's so hard to understand? Their house, their rules.

That doesn't make them racist. But what's prevalent is a bunch of people trying to FORCE their opinions to be accepted by a privately owned forum. Why does it matter so much, that people would call other people racists over this? There are other doll forums. In fact, there are ALOT of other doll forums. So what

Like I said, they should have been upfront from the very beginning about how they simply don't like certain sculpts, instead of doing that whole, "asian aesthetics" thing.

But they did in order to try not to hurt people's feelings. To be honest, they don't even NEED to explain why they don't want to let certain doll sculpts in THEIR forum. But they did anyway, not for their benefit, but for members who might be hurt by having their dolls excluded for no apparent reason.

But instead of realizing that fact, Some people began to act like amateur internet lawyers, trying to corner DoA and looking for loopholes regarding their rules. That is so rude.

If people deemed DoA racist for doing so, might I suggest not going there ever? I mean, this might be just me, but if I truly believe that an organization is so awful as to be hypocritical and racist, no way would I go there ever.

But it's odd that people who hate DoA can't stop going there...

What gives a small group the right to decide what qualifies as a BJD, is the big question here.

I'll answer that for you. They didn't.You might not believe this, but shockingly enough, DoA's rules only applies to....DoA!

Don't believe me? Take a look at this forum. They certainly don't adhere to DoA's rules...right?

[Greyhaunt]

While I hesitate to wade into this, you are both right and wrong Googs. While DoA's rules are definitely THIER rules and no one else's, the fact is that they are THE forum for BJDs. When I say THE I mean the biggest, the most content, the most membership and the most influence (whether they want it or not) on the hobby as a whole. Things that occur in DoA do influence what both buyers and manufacturers do.

Remember the Dollmore photos that some people on DoA perceived as espousing rape? Because of the DoA stink the photos were altered/removed.

Because they are the biggest and most influencial BJD forum on the internet there is a perception by many that DoA sets the rules for the entire hobby.

Sure, I know that isn't true, you know that isn't true, and a lot of people know that isn't true, but at the same time there are a bunch of people out there who don't grasp that fact and they take that DoA standard outside of the DoA forum and declare it a universal "law of the hobby".

It's not DoA's fault by any stretch, but it contributes to the negative perceptions whether they are justified or not.

Clearly those who run DoA are comfortable with their rules and standards and aren't going to change them just because lots of their users disagree with them. Personally I think they do themselves a disservice by not reconsidering their guidelines, but that's me. In a similar position of influence (and god I hope this forum never hits that level cause I like it small) I would probably try to have a less ambiguous guideline - but as you pointed out, it's not really an issue here cause no one is screaming at me about capriciously excluding sex dolls and reborns.

So you are right - DoA's rules are DoA's rules, but you are wrong because whether they like it or not their influence does go outside of their forum and extends to other areas of the bjd hobby. They have become a "power" if you will, and you know that old saying: with great power comes great responsibility. As I said, I think DoA does itself an injustice and should accept that it has grown beyond the original intent and reconfigure itself to meet that need, but I neither own them, nor run them so I just express my opinion.

And, dare I need say it folks - but I said very early on in this thread that if it started to get DoA specific I was gonna shut it down.

Guess what.

To be fair, I will leave it open for Googly to reply if he wants to, but after that we're going on lockdown.

[OkamiKodomo]

No, they didn't deliberately, but the term has spread to many parts of the hobby. It's frustrating to some folks. DoA itself isn't "racist", but by ruling a doll OT for that reason is silly. I'm agreeing with you on the being upfront aspect. And I don't know who was being an internet lawyer, and I can't speak for anyone else on this, but I was partaking in this discussion to express frustration of my own, not to try to slip under the radar, or find a loophole. o_O Personally, I enjoy DoA, with a few exceptions, just as much as this place, and I'm considering buying a few of the larger BJD that are ruled OT and I'll share them here. I never said I hate DoA, and in fact, GreyHaunt has specifically asked that people not rag on DoA many many times. This is a discussion about the perceived Asian Aesthetic, and how it's been applied to the hobby. Not a debate about DoA policy.

Because whether it was DoA policies or not, the term HAS spread to places that are not DoA.

Whoops. Too late then? Serves me right for going to make food instead of hovering around for a reply? Feel free to delete this post if you want, GH.

[Greyhaunt]

no, thats ok, you had the right to answer as well