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bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

General discussions about dolls, new releases, doll reviews...you know, stuff that doesn't really fit in all the other categories but is strictly about dolls.


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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby Dirili » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:23 am

I just wanted to put in a big thank you to those people who have acknowledged that BJD artists are not the only hard workers out there.

Really not just artists, but even with the big companies, marketing, accounting, PR.... all those jobs, NONE of them are easy or fun. they are ALL hard work.

With my IMVU work, 3ds max itself cost $3,500 and I spent nearly every waking hour for a month and a half learning how to use it (many people say it takes about a year of study before you can really work with it). I worked about 60 hours a week for a loooong time to build up enough inventory and advertise enough to start generating some business. I did all my own layouts, catalog pics advertising and marketing. Bought a $2,500 screen tablet to make texturing faster and easier, although the bulk of my business came from meshing, not texturing.

Point is, I don't know about you all, but every job I've ever had, no matter what it was, I always worked hard and did my best. I don't appreciate anyone saying that my work is less important or less worthy of protection than someone else's just because they handle multiple facets of the business themselves, or put a lot of hours into their work. Because they aren't the only ones! Faaaar from it!

I've just been really depressed lately and the over-glorification of bjd artists and the disregard for the employees that handle other aspects of the business and other types of artists has been even more depressing for me. I mean yeah it's one thing to focus on bjd artists because this is a doll forum, but still, even though some dolls may be mass produced and may not look as good, those artists still work hard as well. But they have even more limitations on them being that they have to stay within guidelines for mass production.

Also have to add that I COMPLETELY agree here:
It is the simple fact that I, personally, find it less disgusting to give my money to a recaster, than pay the insane prices people ask for some discontinued dolls on the market place. To me, it seems phenomenally unfair that an owner makes more of a profit on their dirty, damaged, often incomplete doll, than the original company did.


from what I have see with recasters, (and I may not be fully well informed here but this is the impression that I get) they tend to offer dolls like what Okami posted above there or copies of VERY expensive dolls where their reproductions are less than half the cost of the originals.

I think that if it was between paying $200 for a recast or $300 for an original, that most people would just save up a little longer and buy the original. But the recasts and buys seem to mostly be things like $700-$1,200 dolls being bought at $200-250 (typically 1/3rd or less the the price of the original) so I tend to think that the people that buy these particular recasts really wouldn't buy the originals anyway.

Again, not saying it's right, it's just my observance.
I don't know why I keep reading this thread... it really compounds my depression.
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby DollyKim » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:38 am

You're making something and money from your art which is more than I can say. All the things I've done for "work" and been paid for the only thing close to art is my pattern books. I've never sold a piece of art work and have pretty much... Then I get up the next morning and sooner or later something will have me making art again. The only time I ever got any recognition was back in 1990 and then never ever again. A piece was stolen from the last "show" I had anything to do with. If it wasn't for internet galleries no one would ever see what I have. But I get up the next day and something happens to have me make more art.

Until Prototype Pete a couple of months ago I had never completed a jointed doll before. If I was a quitter it would have happened when the first Roger went to the glue factory if not back when my work on heads wasn't working. But I kept going.

To put it in a way that would make me want to punch the speaker in the mouth they wouldn't steal stuff unless it was good and/or popular. Or you're no one until Weird Al parodies your song.
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby dhawktx » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:53 pm

My post was a bit too brief obviously.

As a jewelery artist myself I had to work out what the true raw 'value' of my pieces were. And that meant that I had to work out what my overhead costs were... These were the times when I wasn't physically making pieces to sell. Instead, I was off buying new materials, checking in materials and figuring out the unit costs (so I could then figure out how much each unit cost in my finished pieces), keeping my books, creating advertising materials and printing them and mailing them and/or posting them on the web (it was 10 yrs ago - the Web makes marketing SO much easier/harder!). Booking myself in shows and prepping for shows - creating my displays, figuring the logistics of the trip for the show (they're rarely local)... and each 'job', if done by another, would have a different pay scale, but the work STILL had to be paid for if you wanted to stay in business.

So you charge accordingly. In the end, as the artist, you HAVE to know how much you have to make in a year to pay the bills and stay in business. So you HAVE to make sure that you are getting that much in sales, or you will quickly be OUT of business, no matter how wonderful your work is. This often means having a part time or full time job to help cover those bills. This often means working for less than minimum wage - especially in the first few years. If you are smart/able to do so, you find a freelance accountant, advertising rep, ANYTHING you can do to free up your time so you can use it on higher paying tasks, like designing and making new works. This is how most companies start out. Even KNOWING all that, there wasn't enough of ME to go around. I didn't have anyone else helping me, and I didn't have the resources we have today. So I had to give that dream up and go back to a full time day job, even though my work was of the highest standards and well received when I was able to get it in front of the public.

People assume that the "big" doll companies are huge factories. Most of them are much, much smaller. And they can only do so much in a year. People assume that all you have to do to cast a doll is pull out the mold and cast it. Word up: Silicone molds degrade and have to be made again from the originals. That costs money and personnel time. When a sculpt is retired it might be a simple fact that the mold is not useable any more and they have the choice of remaking molds for a diminishing amount of orders (the peeps who REALLY wanted them got them the first time), or making molds of a NEW doll that will have a much larger order rate since it IS new. Economics say retire the old and make the new. Hence you have limited dolls.

That in NO WAY makes it right or fair or in any way JUSTIFIABLE to make a copy of that item and sell it. The ease with which digital properties can be bootlegged have led the last few generations to adopt a truly cavalier attitude towards intellectual property rights. This gives the original artist less and less incentive to create except for themselves. It certainly doesn't encourage them to take their art to the next level and make it available to the world.

Just my fifty cents, from a non-dolly-centric artist's point of view.

Yanagi-sen wrote:
kittyasauras wrote:I think it's a little different comparing an amateur sculptor to a professional one. The same with artist run companies and normal companies.<snip>

In artist dolls, the artist is the one that makes all the molds, draws the dolls prototypes, sculpts them, casts them..etc. But with company dolls, there is more than one person that makes a single doll; so I think it's a little unfair to compare the two.


I certainly hope you aren't implying that Kiki-chan's Sweet Dolls isn't a real 'company' just because it is new? She is a professional. This is her full-time job. This is what she paid ridiculous amounts of money to go to school for. She took the 3D design and advertising and business courses just to create Sweet Dolls. I imagine most of the big name doll companies got their start this way. One person, or a couple people, doing everything themselves, and hoping that consumers would like what they were creating. I'm also sure with many of these companies, it is STILL one person that designs the doll, creates the prototype, and brings it to the table for consideration. The production end might have more people involved, but each new doll (especially if they are starting into a new size) is still the labor of love for one or a very small group of people.

Considering an 'artist run company' not in the same category as a 'normal' company, makes me wonder what is considered normal?
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby Dirili » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:33 pm

Sorry for going a little OT here, not to kick any of you while you are down, but it's kind of comforting in a way to know that I'm in the company of other struggling artists here. Even if you are not making your living as an artist, that is still what you are at the core. So many of our careers never see the light of day.

dhawktx, I tried jewelry for a while too and failed miserably T_T Made some jeweled bikinis and such. I had wanted to get into the actual metal work rather than just arrangement and assembly, but was always kind of afraid to work with metal casting... and I never got the hang of soldering. No matter what I did, it kept coming apart for some reason.

I got extremely lucky with the IMVU gig. Part of it was my hard work, but just finding it in the first place as it was one of the very few things that I could actually do successfully for a long period of time.

See, I'm disabled with a severe social anxiety with panic attacks caused by certain sounds, and of course depression. So I rarely leave the house, but I have a very difficult time being around more than one person at a time and I have never been able to work a job for more than a year before, because at first I'll be sort of alright, but I don't know if I give off some kind of vibes that make people dislike me, or if I just get paranoid that people are talking about me and being antagonistic towards me, but as I stay in an environment and see the same people on a regular basis, I become more and more agitated, paranoid and depressed and suffer more and more frequent panic attacks. The lengths of time I could spend at jobs before I had a break down and entered suicide mode got shorter and shorter till I just couldn't take it anymore.

Even online I can't stick with a social scene forever, although it's a little easier than irl. I was very active with IMVU for 3 years and then it started getting really hard for me to deal with the people on there. I haven't submitted any new work there since April I think. But the great thing about creating meshes there is that if you get well known enough, people will keep deriving from your meshes so you get residuals.

I wanted to try my hand at painting again and see if I could get anywhere with it if I put in the kind of work that I did for IMVU. But I got distracted by dolls while I was looking for models. (sorry I know I've said that a million times here lol).

I know it's a LOT harder to succeed as an artist in a non-niche market, but painting is really where my heart has always been even if I haven't done nearly as much of it as I should, for lack of space mostly.
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby yarwel » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:53 pm

Dirili, I'm sorry to hear about your trouble with work. :(
I also have a form of social anxiety, so I know that it can be very hard feeling disliked. I want you to know that you have very many good points and I for one like you very much. I also think you should continue to pursue your painting because it's what you love to do.
I'll be praying for you.
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby Dirili » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:46 pm

thank you soooo much yarwel.
I know a lot of people have a really hard time understanding my weirdness, much less accepting it, so I'm very appreciative when people are encouraging :)
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby kittyasauras » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:25 pm

My husband has severe anxiety issues also, this past week has been an uplift. He got put back on medicine again, and he's actually been able to function. We've gone out to the country and walked/hiked several times this week, and that has seemed to help a lot.
Two weeks ago, he was in and out of the ER because his doctor was out of town and no one was able to take him in. Of course the ER doesn't give any psychological help, but he also has asthma, so when he would have a panic attack it would just make it worse...
I'm glad everything is okay with him currently, his constant pacing in the yard and everything else was stressing me out! lol

But, just letting you know that there are people here that understand you and what you are going through, even if it seems like no one is. I enjoy your posts, and I hope you stick around here for a long time. : )
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby Kirahfaye » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:25 am

Dirili, you are in common company here. Several people here can relate to your situation in one form or another. While I have no clinical issues I am very shy and introverted and haven't really had someone I could call a "best friend" since high school (and that's a looooooong time ago!). I'm fine in small groups if I know the people pretty well, but I basically shut down in groups larger than a dozen or so. I've had family members who have dealt with bio-polar disorder, severe depression and/or anxiety, including my teen-age daughter who was diagnosed with D&A when she was 12. I doubt you'll find anyone here who hasn't either experienced similar difficulties or at least can empathize.

You are among friends.
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby SugarCorpse » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:13 pm

Dirili, i think i have the same issues. I ended up quitting high school when i was 17 because of similar issues and have issues keeping or finding jobs for the same reason.

I've been slowly getting a lot better though and im actually going to be trying to get back into school in the fall
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Re: bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

Postby DollyKim » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:59 pm

Just finish up with home or online schooling and get a start on the next part of your life. After I left high school for reasons I'll repress I started taking a couple of college courses, found out the units transferred, and I had knocked out several requirements for my degree before I even started!

Being in a bad mind set at school or work doesn't do anyone any favors.
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