Newbie at sewing stretch seams, of course there's a problem

[WhiteDove01s]

Ok, I'm trying to sew barbie underwear, and I finally have a pattern that works without putting any additional closures or velcro anywhere that real undies would not have. The test panties wriggle right up over the doll's butt and fit perfectly... except for the part where I popped the thread in the waist hem doing this. Basically, the pattern's a perfect fit and the stretchy fabric stretched enough, but the thread did not.

This is the first time I've worked with something stretchier than t-shirt fabric (it's spandex, I think), and I don't really want to put a back closure in when I know the pattern actually fits and will go on except for the hemming issue.

I did know enough to use a zig-zag stitch... should I try using a wider one? I'm also worried about it showing, and my machine only does zig-zag and straight, no 'blind zig-zag'... but I'm starting to think that won't be avoidable without a new machine that does that stitch.

So, advice on sewing a hem that will still stretch (a lot)?

[Czanne]

Wider is good. If your thread, elastic and fabric match, then the showing won't matter. That's how the industry does it.

Are you using cotton or polyester thread? For knits, you need to use poly. Cotton just doesn't stretch well enough.

Ease your upper tension just a little bit -- if your machine does numbers, back it off a half number. If it uses notches, back down one.

The trick is to stretch the elastic as you're sewing it on, and to topstitch the elastic on the *right* side of the garment. If you're using picot edge elastic, that's the point anyway -- you want those cute little loops to show. If you're using plain edge, the elastic will hide the cut edge of the fabric. To start this, don't cut the elastic off the skein. Overlay the leading edge of the elastic where you want it on the front/right side of the fabric, then shift it maybe a half cm off the side edge of the fabric (so the elastic is sticking out of the side seam). Take a couple stitches without stretching the elastic at all to anchor it to the garment fabric. With presser foot *and* needle down, take the loose elastic in your right hand and stretch gently. You don't want to go full extension, you're not trying to make the elastic kicky, just about the tension you want in a well-strung doll. A couple kilograms of pressure. Now start sewing again, slowly, letting the feed dogs pull the fabric and the elastic forward. and using your left hand to guide everything in a straight line. Behind the presser foot, the sewn edge will start to bunch itself back up. That's the plan. When you get to the other edge, cut off the elastic from the skein, trim the tongue you left sticking out, and either go on to the back half or the legs.

In future, given your machine's limits, I would probably do the side seams first, then sew a waistband casing instead by adding a centimeter to the top edge of the panties, folding it down and narrow zig-zagging it, then threading narrow elastic cord (.5 to 1mm / 1/8 inch) through the completed channel and whipstitching the side seam. I personally would just hem the leg openings and wouldn't do leg elastic, because it's applied in human garments to keep the fabric from wedgie-ing us when we walk. The dolls really don't have that problem. Or, instead of doing bikinis or briefs, I'd consider boy shorts, which are supposed to be hemmed at the legs.

I hope that helps. If you need a video, I can do one Saturday.

[Czanne]

Oh, one more. Lengthen your stitch length a little. A wide stitch gives vertical stability; a longer stitch gives horizontal stability. With stretch fabrics, you want horizontal.

[WhiteDove01s]

I actually haven't been using any elastic at all. I'm sewing in 1/6 scale and the fabric is stretchy enough on its own to do the job, so I skipped elastic to avoid adding unnecessary bulk. I will try making the stitches both wider and longer tho, and I am using polyester thread, thanks.

[Czanne]

Oh. Okay. Erm. I'd change out the top thread for elastic thread, then. On the other hand... If they fit, do they need any other stitching than side seams?

Have you considered using the wide stretch lace method? For a 1/6th, you need the waist measurement (not hip). Cut a length of lace (or a strip of your fabric, assuming it won't ravel or run) equal to the waist circumference with the wider stretch running side to side. Seam the cut edges together with a zigzag, then, still inside out, lay the resulting tube flat with the seam on one side. (As long as you cut evenly, interlocks won't ravel. Determine the middle of the tube by folding from the seam to the fold and mark the centimeter in the center. Sew that centimeter to create the crotch. With lace, the tops and legs are already finished; with a good spandex active wear, as long as you cut straight, it'll be fine. (I actually have some seamless panties that have no stitching at all-- they were laser cut and the seams are fabric welded together.) Turn right side out for wear.

On a 1/4 scale, inch wide lace makes hip huggers and 2 inch makes elegant briefs. The lace stretches in the right directions to handle the rump, and without hem stitching, you shouldn't have thread pops. (I don't know about 1/6th, I'm sorry.)

[Aeilia]

If you don't mind a little hand sewing, I'd avoid using machine stitching on such a small item. I find hand stitching teeny tiny clothes is way easier, because one has more control where the stitching goes. Use a hand done back stitch to do your waist hem. I used it on a pair of lycra stretch leggings for the waist and leg hems, and it has plenty of stretch.

[WhiteDove01s]

Sorry for taking so long to reply, RL has been something of a bear. A bit more info... In the unspecified future roughtly 3+ years from now I hope to open an etsy store specializing in 1/6 scale stuff. I am designing all my own patterns for the clothes just to be sure I don't copyright infringe somehow. I used to sew all the time when I was younger for my cousin's dolls, but was limited to scraps from my relatives clothes and my own. Primarily non-stretch denim from re-hemming too-long jeans, some t-shirt fabric, and one wonderful time when I was given some silk from an old nightgown... but I'm going on a tangent there. Sewing tiny clothes, even on machine or with non-stretch fabrics isn't a trick for me. Well, one trick - I modified quilter's paper-piecing methods as a way to get tiny bits together on a machine without going mad(der).

This, however, is the first time I have sewn anything in spandex. I'm lucky 90% of it went well.

Here's my model, Candy, wearing the 'test' version of the first of four variants I've drafted on a basic panty pattern, and a ribbon for modesty:


As you can see, it fits great and looks like real underwear. But, as I said, I popped stitches in the waist getting it on her. If I can scrape time together today, I'll sew another test and try making the waist stitches bigger/longer. I'd try just redoing the hem on this one, but I don't think I can get the tiny waist around the machine's presser foot. XD

I'd change out the top thread for elastic thread, then

They make elastic thread for machines? How does that work with the tension settings? See, this is the stuff where I get lost... It's been 20 years since I sewed for my cousin, and only the past couple years when I've gotten interested in having 1/6 dolls of my own. And machine sewing is kind of new, too.

If they fit, do they need any other stitching than side seams?

While knit fabrics usually won't fray, I feel like it's a cheat and looks cheap if I don't hem my work. I've been disappointed when store-bought clothes don't hem, so I'm trying to avoid doing the same.

The lace panties sound interesting, but I already have a pattern I'm trying to work the last bugs out of.

If you don't mind a little hand sewing, I'd avoid using machine stitching on such a small item. I find hand stitching teeny tiny clothes is way easier, because one has more control where the stitching goes. Use a hand done back stitch to do your waist hem. I used it on a pair of lycra stretch leggings for the waist and leg hems, and it has plenty of stretch.

I actually have a neat trick to getting around that issue, modified off the paper-piecing trick quilters use. The smallest thing I've ever sewn is a mini log cabin quilt. If I hand-sewed all my new patterns, I'd never make them fast enough to be able to try to sell them at a decent price. The trick I use lets me get all the stitches where I want them. Thanks for the tip, tho, as I'll probably have to hand-sew if I want to repair the 'test' undies for my own dolls to wear - that tiny waist is not going to fit around the machine's presser foot. XD And, worst case scenario, I might end up having to hand-sew just the waists on these. I'd still rather not, as it'd take me as long to do that one hem as the whole rest of the undies... I hand-sew slow.

[Czanne]

Sorry for taking so long to reply, RL has been something of a bear. A bit more info... In the unspecified future roughtly 3+ years from now I hope to open an etsy store specializing in 1/6 scale stuff. I am designing all my own patterns for the clothes just to be sure I don't copyright infringe somehow. I used to sew all the time when I was younger for my cousin's dolls, but was limited to scraps from my relatives clothes and my own. Primarily non-stretch denim from re-hemming too-long jeans, some t-shirt fabric, and one wonderful time when I was given some silk from an old nightgown... but I'm going on a tangent there. Sewing tiny clothes, even on machine or with non-stretch fabrics isn't a trick for me. Well, one trick - I modified quilter's paper-piecing methods as a way to get tiny bits together on a machine without going mad(der).

Hey, life is life. It ALWAYS gets priority. Okay... (where is the thinking emoji?) That is excellent use of materials, by the way. So... 1/6 scale is going to be difficult, no matter what. It's tiny. There are a couple of books/magazines out there especially devoted to the technique of 1/6 scale, because it does require different technique -- do as much flat as you can, side seams are last, et cetera. (http://www.amazon.com/Sewing-Dolls-Clot ... ll+Clothes -- this is a book for 1/12 scale, but it uses the same technique and teaches the how. All links will be Amazon links, but only because that gets you product information. Other than this book, most of these things are available at most fabric stores.)

This, however, is the first time I have sewn anything in spandex. I'm lucky 90% of it went well.

Also, spandex is a PITA. It's an advanced-level fabric, and it really responds best to a machine that was designed after it came into being (so post 1980). I love old machines and have rescued more than one treadle/Depression era electric, but their feed dogs are not up to stretch fabrics because for the most part, stretch fabrics didn't exist for their engineers or users (with a couple of exceptions, but early 20th century jersey is not ITY.) In your business plan, if you haven't already considered a modern, non-industrial machine, you should at least think about it. It doesn't have to be a top of the line Bernina -- I've got a pair of low-end Brothers whose praises I sing and who spend almost no time in the shop; one retails at $300 today and the other at $150. SE-400 and an Innovis 40, which is the same as a CS6000i, respectively, fwiw. They're great machines, sturdy and smart. I like the SE400 better because I'm lazy and nearsighted and I hate threading needles and cutting off the thread tails, so I like the SE400's advanced threading system and automatic thread cutter better. I have used the embroidery functions of the 400, and it does great work, but I'm primarily a garment sewist, not an embellisher. I've had that one 4 years, it's in the shop right now for the second time for cleaning and adjustment. I consider that an annual expectation, but not with my 400. (Just ensure you have a convenient Brother service provider in your area who does the work on-site, otherwise you're looking at 2 week turnarounds for tuneups. THAT is the only reason I won't replace mine with more Brother's -- I don't like my local service provider. But Babylock and Janome use the exact same guts and production lines that Brother uses, so they're all essentially the same machines.) Mine sew 80 or so human scale garments a year, plus 10-15 test garments and I don't know how much doll and craft, so they get a workout. But even an IKEA Sy (which is a $60 machine) or a big box fabric store loss leader machine will have modern feed dogs and multiple stitches, so you have options.

Here's my model, Candy, wearing the 'test' version of the first of four variants I've drafted on a basic panty pattern, and a ribbon for modesty.
....
As you can see, it fits great and looks like real underwear. But, as I said, I popped stitches in the waist getting it on her. If I can scrape time together today, I'll sew another test and try making the waist stitches bigger/longer. I'd try just redoing the hem on this one, but I don't think I can get the tiny waist around the machine's presser foot. XD

Those are lovely. And I think you're over-thinking them. (It's okay -- everyone does. Textiles are both incredibly complicated and simple, and knowing that line is why designers spend years learning.) Your design looks fine -- but they don't need nearly that much stitching. With any knit, the horizontal stitching will always be the weak point, so that stitching line has to be at least 3% larger than the largest measurement it must pass. (Most women's derrieres are larger then their waists, which is why almost all women's underwear has at least a little easing, if not gathering, at the waist. Same principle here.) That ease is the reason that garments have elastic at the waist. When not stretched, the jersey should be 5% larger than the largest transit point -- hip -- and the cut elastic should be exactly the waist measurement. You'll lose a little at the seam, which creates the negative ease, and you stretch the elastic as it gets sewn onto the jersey to take up that extra percentage.

Now, go look at these panties: (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/product/women- ... s-shorts/~)

Note the things they don't have -- no stitching. No waist elastic. With good spandex, you just don't need it. Essentially, you undersize the garment and use the negative ease to keep them in place. (I wear those. I love them. They're the best workout and dancing knickers I've ever found.) You can transfer that to your current design now by just eliminating the waist hem entirely, reducing the width by a couple millimeters, and ensuring you're cutting clean on grain. The other advantage of eliminating the hemming is it reduces visible underwear lines with other clothing on top.

I don't know if you're aware, but if the fabric you're using is a synthetic (polyester or nylon), you can, and should, cut it with a hot knife / soldering iron on glass. Hot cut fabric will not ravel and the edges are perfect. It takes a little practice, and you have to stencil on your master pattern, but it goes very fast once you have a master pattern. And hot cut doesn't need hems. In production environment, the time you don't spend hemming is time you can do everything else.

I'd change out the top thread for elastic thread, then

They make elastic thread for machines? How does that work with the tension settings? See, this is the stuff where I get lost... It's been 20 years since I sewed for my cousin, and only the past couple years when I've gotten interested in having 1/6 dolls of my own. And machine sewing is kind of new, too.

Ah, yes, they do make elastic thread. http://www.amazon.com/Notions-Marketing ... tic+thread It doesn't come in many colors, but that's not that big of a deal.

I had it backwards -- the elastic thread goes in the bobbin, not on top. (Here's a link for a how-to: http://crafts.answers.com/sewing/sewing ... tic-thread )

(Continued, next post.)

[Aeilia]

I actually have a neat trick to getting around that issue, modified off the paper-piecing trick quilters use. The smallest thing I've ever sewn is a mini log cabin quilt. If I hand-sewed all my new patterns, I'd never make them fast enough to be able to try to sell them at a decent price. The trick I use lets me get all the stitches where I want them. Thanks for the tip, tho, as I'll probably have to hand-sew if I want to repair the 'test' undies for my own dolls to wear - that tiny waist is not going to fit around the machine's presser foot. XD And, worst case scenario, I might end up having to hand-sew just the waists on these. I'd still rather not, as it'd take me as long to do that one hem as the whole rest of the undies... I hand-sew slow.

Well, I guess another is to use some type of zig-zag stitch, if your machine does that. Alternately, you can use a straight machine stitch, if you pull the fabric/stretch it while you are stitching. How much depends on how stretchy your fabric is; it takes experimenting. My machine has a stitch called true stretch stitch, which works well on very stretchy fabrics. It looks like a straight stitch, but it is actually a back stitch done by the machine.

[Czanne]

Your other alternative is wooly nylon thread, which does come in every color that nylon does. It's that furry, fluffy thread you sometimes see on serged seam allowances -- the stuff that gets everywhere when you take a seam ripper to it. BUT it stretches nicely, and it goes in the top. http://www.amazon.com/Wooly-Nylon-Threa ... olly+nylon

Tension settings are more complicated, and again, this is a vintage versus modern machine issue. With wooly nylon, you want to back off a little -- 1 notch. With elastic thread, don't touch your tension. But if the feed dogs are getting worn or you're dealing with a 2 dog machine instead of a 5/7/9, the machine may eat the fabric. That has nothing to do with the tension, just the fact that the machine can't feed the fabric.

If they fit, do they need any other stitching than side seams?

While knit fabrics usually won't fray, I feel like it's a cheat and looks cheap if I don't hem my work. I've been disappointed when store-bought clothes don't hem, so I'm trying to avoid doing the same.

Ah. Okay. That's the technology lag. From my textiles design perspective, everything about clothing is function before form, and the tools always dictate the technique. (This is why panties as we know them did not exist before about 1946. The elastic we use just didn't exist. From about 1920 to 1945, the standard undergarment was the boxer for men and what we call French knickers or tap pants for women. They were built on the machines of their time, which are like yours, which handled woven fabrics much better than jersey. Their elastic was nearly always cased, not directly applied. And before elastic, it was all buttons and bands.) If a seam won't hold, it doesn't matter how pretty the fabric is, right? You may sell it once, buy you won't get repeat customers. Hems exist because historically, all fabric frayed. Except that that's no longer true because the technology has caught up with us. If you look closely at most modern, big-box to department store level RTW (I'm leaving out couture because that's a whole 'nother thing), you'll see that most seam finishes are serged, and most elastic is placed using a coverstitch or serger.

__*__*__*%% <--- This represents a side view of standard 1/4" picot elastic
^^ <---- this represents serging, coverstitching or zigzag stitches
---------- <---- this represents standard jersey, jersey with lycra, ITY jersey or similar

Note where the overlap is -- it's basically only on the jersey edge to elastic. We don't hem either one anymore. (We used to, because the fabric couldn't tolerate not being hemmed, but jersey knitting has improved in the last 30 years.) HOWEVER, for 1/6 scale, both serging and coverstitching become impractical; the machines just cannot get that small. With MSD scale, I can just barely apply an elastic waistband in the round; I have to do the legs flat. (Which is how the professionally made MSD knickers are made.) At 1/6th, I'd do everything flat and join the side seams last. (For production, I would also go production line instead of making individual garments -- trace out 12 pair on the same piece of fabric, apply all of their elastics, then cut them out and do the side seams last -- for ease of sewing. There will be more waste of material, but the production time will be the more valuable commodity, and at 1/6 scale, you'll have almost as much waste as finished product anyway.) If you would like, I'll run up the test for that. I've got a functional flat 1/3 scale underwear pattern and I don't mind having extra underwear available.

The lace panties sound interesting, but I already have a pattern I'm trying to work the last bugs out of.

Fair enough.

Given that you're working towards a production environment, please allow me to recommend a blog: fashion-incubator.com. She's in the industry, and the industry techniques translate to a small shop environment. You have to know your price point for your garment, and you have to pay yourself for your time, and if you're not making at least minimum wage an hour, you're doing it wrong. Since people will reasonably pay between $7 and $10 for a pair of panties for their dolls, you can't afford to spend more than a half hour on each pair (materials and infrastructure cost), including cutting and final packaging. That's still not costing out your development time. You should be able to build a nice garment in that amount of time -- but you'll have to make sure you've got the tools for the technique and that you're applying the right technique to the scale.