bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

[happyknot]

If I'm not getting off topic and you don't mind answering, what went on with that? I know they're banned but it sounds like a lot went down - did you get anything for what you paid or was it just flat out take-your-money-and-run? I'm just really curious.

Forever Doll ran like any other legitimate business: you payed money and they mailed you the product you purchased.
Their pictures looked like owner pictures if you know what I mean; no special camera or studio set up for pictures were used. The dolls themselves looked kind of ugly so it was a big surprise when people said they looked suspiciously like Volks dolls.

They were made out of a heavy brittle resin that was then spray painted a flesh tone. The actual resin color was a dark pink, almost red. The doll hands were notorious for arriving with all broken fingers.

There was some arguing back and forth in the Den of Angels group at the time and then someone notified Volks. Volks took Forever Doll to court and won so it turns out that Forever Doll was making illegal recasts of at least one of the sculpts by Volks.

It's strange that I can't find any pictures of these dolls. It's such an interesting part in the history of this hobby. I DO have pictures somewhere but they're not digital.

Speaking of recasts - I found some photographic comparisons between an original Unoa and a recast. The fake is marked with an F, and the original is marked with an O. I don't know if this recast is by bjdbaby, but it gives you a good idea about the quality that is out there now. Unoa recast vs Unoa original <--flickr link.

[famedglory]

It is distressing how good some of the recasts have gotten, however if you look at some of the blank pictures that this particular company has taken on their site, you can see uneven coloring. In one of the smaller dolls, the thigh piece has a big swirl of grayish resin in the middle of it. And the pictures of the faceups are pictures taken from the original companies sites. And except for one of the dolls, they don't give resin color options so who knows what shade it would turn up in.

[Skitterbug]

If I'm not getting off topic and you don't mind answering, what went on with that? I know they're banned but it sounds like a lot went down - did you get anything for what you paid or was it just flat out take-your-money-and-run? I'm just really curious.

Forever Doll ran like any other legitimate business: you payed money and they mailed you the product you purchased.
Their pictures looked like owner pictures if you know what I mean; no special camera or studio set up for pictures were used. The dolls themselves looked kind of ugly so it was a big surprise when people said they looked suspiciously like Volks dolls.

They were made out of a heavy brittle resin that was then spray painted a flesh tone. The actual resin color was a dark pink, almost red. The doll hands were notorious for arriving with all broken fingers.

There was some arguing back and forth in the Den of Angels group at the time and then someone notified Volks. Volks took Forever Doll to court and won so it turns out that Forever Doll was making illegal recasts of at least one of the sculpts by Volks.

It's strange that I can't find any pictures of these dolls. It's such an interesting part in the history of this hobby. I DO have pictures somewhere but they're not digital.

Speaking of recasts - I found some photographic comparisons between an original Unoa and a recast. The fake is marked with an F, and the original is marked with an O. I don't know if this recast is by bjdbaby, but it gives you a good idea about the quality that is out there now. Unoa recast vs Unoa original <--flickr link.

I did a bit of googling - seems like foreverdoll was quite some time ago! I have to admit I have a facsination with recasts, bootlegs, all that sort of thing. Not to the point where I'd buy one on purpose, but I really enjoy reading about them.

I'm wondering if I should post pics of my SD girl's body here, too - see if I can get it identified. I'm scared to go back to DOA because they established her head is a VOLKS recast and I'm afraid someone will remember me ._.

[happyknot]

famedglory The site includes a link to their flickr showing their nude recasts. I didn't see color inconsistencies but I did see photoshop smudge marks where they tried to blur out what I can only assume to be bad flashing that wasn't properly removed. From reviews, people have found the resin color to be even and the texture pleasant - which means people are probably having an easy time passing these off as the real thing on the second hand market.

The company site also says that if you want a certain color you have to email them to specially request it. You can also request a head be put on a different sculpt's body. In some cases that is even their default procedure and you have to specially request it be put on the sculpts original body. Apparently they don't necessarily inform you if they do a body parts swap with another cast; one person who bought a SOOM MSD tiny received an almost perfect copy but the hands belonged to a different SOOM tiny sculpt.

Some people believe these don't hurt the original companies but they do by changing the consumer's expectation." If a pirate can cast this beautiful doll for X- amount, than why can't the original companies do that." In this hobby the prices are high not because of "name brands" but because of the people involved in the creation and presentation process. It's essentially a team of artists, not general laborers. A pirate can sell cheap because they only spent time making the mold and casting the doll - they did not sculpt it themselves. There are no specially branded packaging materials or costumes or fancy web sites or photographers. They have no emotional investment in what they are producing.

~*~

I myself am not immune to the allure of these type of things. I found a Ddung doll knock off at Dollarama the other day...and I BOUGHT it. It was $1 man. I'm...a terrible person. *bricked*

~*~
Skitterbug I don't think Dollieh Sanctuary would have any problem with you posting pictures or asking questions about your sculpt.

[DollyKim]

I have a recast, one of my Littles, so I won't condemn anyone who has one. It's just a situation where I'd say do the best of your abilities not to get another and don't make them yourself*. Heaven forbid if I ever sold that doll I would say it's believed to be a recast.

Making one for yourself is on the okay side, it's making them to sell I don't like.

[Wardah]

Now while I don't have one, I really don't see the big deal with recasts of sculpts that are no longer on the market, as long as it was clearly marked as such. The only person it is hurting is the damned 2nd hand market scalpers, who try to sell a damaged doll for double or even triple what it originally cost just because it isn't made anymore just so they can buy whatever new fullset that has captured their attention.

[Dirili]

Now while I don't have one, I really don't see the big deal with recasts of sculpts that are no longer on the market, as long as it was clearly marked as such. The only person it is hurting is the damned 2nd hand market scalpers, who try to sell a damaged doll for double or even triple what it originally cost just because it isn't made anymore just so they can buy whatever new fullset that has captured their attention.

Honestly I feel the same way.
Although I'm no one to tell people how to run their businesses, I can't help despising limited editions.

[OkamiKodomo]

Yanno, at first, as an artist, I was going "no! bootlegs are bad! Always bad!" but then my fiance said that if he ever owned a doll, he wanted it to be an anthro, my first thought was the Soom fantasy dolls. And after browsing the second hand market, and seeing what people were charging for the discontinued dolls, I felt extremely frustrated. My fiance would never resell the doll, certainly not on any forum, and he's not a collector. He isn't going to care if it's name brand or not. I kept asking myself "is it really hurting anyone?" I was a good girl and managed to find a pair of Grit legs for a somewhat decent price, and I'll figure out the rest of the hybrid later, but that doesn't mean looking at the numbers doesn't piss me off.

Of course the flipside to that, is there are going to be people out there that would rather wait for the cheap knockoff, than pay top dollar and endorse the artist making these dolls. And there's also the matter of "sure it's not hurting anyone, but do I really want to put money in the pocket of someone who rips off someone else's hard work?" That's where the harm is. Buying from bootleggers gives them incentive to keep producing their illegal copies.

Given the option, I would always rather give my money to the artist. But if I'm really, truly honest with myself, I have no moral high ground to stand on. I listen to pirated music, and watch pirated movies. My fiance and I have a Netflix account, but if the movie we feel like watching isn't on Netflix, then we download it. I've owned knock-off purses, and scoffed at people who bought name-brand stuff when the replica was just as serviceable, saying 'all you're paying for is the name!' in a condescending manner. I shop at Wal Mart, even though they deal with suppliers that violate labor laws. It really all boils down to what is acceptable to an individual's moral standards, and nobody has any right to put anyone on blast just because they disagree.

[SugarCorpse]

Oh my. Recasts x_x. Personally i think the only way i'd ever buy a recast is if i couldn't find a specific doll i wanted anywhere else. Like if a company had limited edition dolls or dolls they stopped making and i COULD NOT find a second hand one anywhere, i may buy a recast but i would never sell it to anyone and wouldn't parade her around any where. But if i ever did find the original anywhere i would buy it, even if i had a recast, and make it look like the recast as much as possible (same face up, eyes, etc.) and then destroy the recast.

I'd never buy a recast to save money.... just buy one as a temporary solution until i could find an original somewhere. if that makes sense.

[Dirili]

Geez, I think you actually summed up just about every thought I've had on the subject with that Okami! Agree 101% on those pros and cons.